Friday, August 11, 2006

CD 8 Playing in the Sandbox

Although it’s hard to believe, there is more to life than politics. I had to get out of the sandbox for a couple of days and when I returned discovered a veritable sandstorm.

Giffords’s ‘Quorum Queen’ ad blew up a whirlwind of commentary. Patty’s defenders fired off the ol’ “Liar, Liar Pants On Fire” attack and the Giffords campaign responded with an explanation from democratic legislative leaders saying that she had, indeed, accomplished exactly what the ad claimed. link

In continuing developments

## A new Giffords ad is running now, you can see it on TV as well as on her web site. link

## Patty’s ads are posted on her website, in case you missed them on TV. link

## The Latas campaign has started robo-calling, still flying under the radar. It makes political sense to remember that CD 8 is still essentially a multi candidate race.

71 comments:

FEDUP said...

You forgot to mention Latas also started a DVD campaign this week as reported in the Weekly that might pull an upset.

Ben R said...

You also forgot to mention that it was the Daily Star that said "Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire."

Rex Scott said...

Three prominent Democrats, Senator Bill Brotherton, Representative Linda Lopez and former Senator Slade Mead, stepped up and rebutted the anti-Giffords hysterics who falsely claimed that Giffords lied in her ad. The budget battle of 2003 is best recalled by those who were THERE, not cub reporters who write poorly researched stories. However, you can expect that Brotherton, Lopez and Mead will also be called "liars" by the anti-Giffords crew.

Patty Weiss, desperate to breathe some life into a campaign that has failed to attract the broad-based support Giffords has obtained, once again showed her willingness to engage in negative campaigning by jumping on this non-story.

The ad was an attempt to explain how Giffords employed know-how and guts to stop an injurious budget. The campaign had to make this case in an understandable, compelling way in a 30 second ad, which is no small challenge. You can fault them for engaging in hyperbole and showmanship, but calling it lying is the REAL lie.

The reporter didn't check all his facts. The anti-Giffords bloggers jumped to unwarranted conclusions. Patty Weiss once gain tried to raise unsubstantiated charges against Giffords in a vain attempt to disguise the fact that her campaign is in dire straits.

By the way, proof for the latter point can be found in the way that Weiss continually touts the results of a two-month old poll taken before mailings and TV ads started. Both the Latas and Giffords camps have questioned the staying power of the numbers Weiss bragged about as recently as last Saturday on Emil Franzi's radio show. Until fresh polling numbers come out, it is silly and sad for Weiss to claim she is the front-runner, especially as every major endorsement goes to Giffords.

All of us want a Democrat to be the next member of Congress from CD8. We shouldn't want it for our chosen candidate SO BADLY that we will lie about what other candidates have said and done. Giffords and most of the other Democrats in this race have stuck to talking about their records and platforms. The same can NOT be said for Patty Weiss, or for some of the Gabby-haters on these blogs.

Liza said...

My own canvassing, which so far has not extended past my own neighborhood, reveals that the winner of CD8 so far is "UNDECIDED." Kind of funny, in a way. For all the opinions we have here, the average Democrat still hasn't given this election a lot of thought. I will say that everyone knew that CD8 is about replacing Kolbe and everyone knew that Patty Weiss is a candidate and everyone was "undecided."

x4mr said...

Liza,
Of course concur with you and anyone thinking the blogs reflect what is happening in our neighborhoods is nuts.

My own version of a "poll" is actually quite consistent with the mid-June Lake results, with most knowing Patty from tv and a smaller number knowing Giffords due to her holding office but more than one might think also due to her tire business. No one, and I mean no one, knows anyone else.

Got a hold of a Latas DVD and saw most of it. It is a nice piece of work and shows some cutting edge thinking, but how many will actually watch it? If others are anything like me when it comes to stuff that arrives in the mail, this thing gets tossed quite possibly not even being recognized as something other than an AOL disc.

If he had more money, he could use 30 second ads to plug himself AND his DVD, asking people to look for it and watch it. Another idea would be to invest in a big splash ad in the paper asking people to look for it.

I think and hope that Jeff has a future in politics. Will spare folks my thoughts on a certain ex-newscaster for the moment.

AZYouLikeIt said...

Tedski just posted about Patty's little goof this week. As I noted over there, the difference between Patty's "oops" and Gabby's "oops" is in the response.

Gabby's goof (and I'm being VERY generous calling it a goof) could have been minimized if the campaign had quickly responded with an apology and a new ad. They even had a new spot ready to go, but chose not to use it!

Why in the world did they wait hours to issue a response, then offer up a convoluted explanation that didn't actually dispute the Star story, but instead talked up how much she'd fought the Republicans in the Senate?

Straight talk isn't just a campaign gimmick John McCain came up with one day -- it's the absolute best policy for coping with screw-ups. If you get called on the carpet, get up and move on -- don't roll around in it.

For such a seasoned politician, Gabby came across looking like the amateur this week, while the Patty the political newcomer handled it like a pro.

Kralmajales said...
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Kralmajales said...
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Liza said...

x4mr,
Those of us who support Jeff Latas are really excited about the DVD which, as you say, is very well done. It might get more attention than you think. I'm starting to get some feedback from the work I've been doing and I am proud to say it is VERY positive. Make no mistake about it, we are a lean, mean, fighting machine (smile).

Thank you for the feedback on the DVD because I value your opinion.

Liza said...

Kralmajales,
You are a man in love. I think it's very sweet.

Kralmajales said...
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anonymous said...

Its rumored that a bunch of Border Patrol agents have split off of their union over Gabrielle Giffords endorsement by the cop union they are a part of. Lots of bad blood over the manner in which the endorsement was conducted.... And yes they call Gabby's ad untruthful, too.

I'm sure these BP agents are somehow unaware of how popular and beloved Gabby is for her honest lack of convictions and no priors.

anonymous said...

http://www.local2544.org/

anonymous said...

I, too love Gabby and I wish she would return to her roots, as an urban planner or a lobbyist for her donors and patrons. She still has some value somewhere after this race is over. But it won't be public relations or advertising.

Kralmajales said...
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x4mr said...

Liza,

Just finished the DVD, and for what my opinion is worth, it is the Salette piece that hits the ball out of the park. Absolutely fabulous, completely genuine, and truly moving.

Sure, every campaign has its "rogue bloggers," but I completely respect the Latas campaign. If he prevails 9/12, he has my enthusiastic support going into November. If he does not prevail 9/12, I really hope this community finds a way to tap into what Jeff and Salette have to contribute.

We need people like this.

CD8Dem said...

Gabby has no credibility nor integrity.

I WILL NOT be voting for her if she survives the September Primary.

Not to worry though, candidates with no credibility or integrity do not win elections.

cc burro said...

Mr. Johnson appears to agree with Mr. Hayworth on the immigration issue in many respects...ugh...He's not going to win the primary, but if he did, I would start checking out the the Independent whose running.

The Latas DVD is really good! Jeff's passion and integrity really come through.

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Darapti said...

CD8Dem and CC...

We're lucky in the primary because we can let any petty dislike or resentmentaffect our vote and still have someone we feel comfortable with to vote for.

My own view is the La Patty is a politically empty-headed teleprompter queen, but I'll sure as hell vote for her if she wins the primary.

Any Democrat is better than a Republican. There is only one issue in the election this year: controlling Congress.

Live long and prosper

Darapti

AZYouLikeIt said...

Darapati -- Have you gone and talked to Patty at any her campaign events?

You can disagree with her positions or her tactics, but calling her "empty-headed" is a sure sign of someone who's never met the woman.

She's very very sharp. Go have a conversation with her.

cc burro said...

DARAPTI--You're right. If Johnson won, I would hold my nose and vote for him.

Kralmajales said...
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Liza said...

x4mr and cc burro,
Thanks for the positive feedback on the Jeff Latas DVD. So far, everything I have heard is positive.

Liza said...

kralmajales,
I'm looking forward to a big PARTY when we take back CD8. We are having one, aren't we?

Kralmajales said...
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Rex Scott said...

Glad to see that the Tucson Citizen joined the Tucson Weekly in backing Giffords because both papers occupy different places in the journalistic world and in public perceptions. It shows the breadth of support Giffords is able to attract. Sorta like the fact that Democrats as diverse as Grijalva and Arzberger back her, too!

Patty Weiss is intelligent, personable and savvy. While she is not my first choice in this primary, she is someone I could proudly support as our nominee. Calling her "empty-headed" is a cheap shot with no basis in reality. Let's keep it civil, folks.

Truthfully, I will be happy to back any of our candidates with the exception of Johnson the xenophobe and Minuteman apologist.

FEDUP said...

ccburro,
Why would you vote for Johnson before say, Quick if Johnson was the Democratic candidate?

Blind loyalty to party with no regard to agenda is what has given the power to the Republicans they now hold. Quick at least has progressive issues on his site. Johnson is further to the right of Huffman and Hellon.

Agree with you on the Latas DVD and x4mr about the wife part. He might pull it off.

TC endorsement is no surprise as I have said that for months. It was a pretty weak endorsement though, as was the TW. The TW did give her a tremendous amount of free publicity though with its front cover. Too bad they didn't pick a better photo (or good in this case since I don't support her). Now we just need the AZStar endorsement to complete the trifecta per my predictions.

FEDUP said...

"It shows the breadth of support Giffords is able to attract"

Yeah right, Rex. It shows what I have been saying for months. Her friends at the papers take care of her. After Stanton's hit piece months ago why wouldn't they support Giffords? They made that clear from day one, as the Tucson Weekly has with their petty reporting on the other candidates. The AZ Daily Star has been doing the same. Daniel's article was a fluke that it ever got published given the tight reign editors have and their pro-Giffords coverage over the years. Maybe the delay in their endorsement is due to that fat Republican file that will make them all look like idiots for not investigating sooner? I doubt it though. I am positive they will endorse her too if they endorse in this race.

Liza said...

kralmajales,
I don't have any favorite places, but I don't get out much. And, of course, my side of town is neo-conservative.

Kralmajales said...
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x4mr said...

Well folks, just went to the upscale Republican Forum this evening, and it was, well, upscale.

Hosted at a fabulous church that featured massive big screen televisions that, when candidates reached final minute, started counting down 59, 58, 57, 56, for all including candidates to see.

If I were to start of list of x4mr's most compelling CD 8 election moments, we are up to three:

Willcox: "Gabby Gabby Gabby"
Nucleus: "Reporter from Fox News"

and now tonight, in a church before a room of conservative bible folk at a forum preceded by a prayer asking god to give the candidates clear thoughts, we have Bill Johnson's answer when asked about his position "on life."

Overpopulation is a terrible problem on this planet. I am not pro-choice. I am not pro-life. I think abortion should remain legal because it makes a good contraceptive.

For about 1.5 seconds, there was complete silence, as the collective consciousness of the room asked itself if it really did hear what it thought it heard, and then, upon reaching the conclusion that yes, this indeed was said, a strange sound emanated from a group of folks in the back center of the room, a mix of moan, gasp, and something else. What was interesting is that multiple people were making the same noise.

Antoneri was stellar and Patty was predictably eloquent, and must acknowledge tonight as an act of courage on her part.

I can understand Latas and Giffords choosing other endeavors for this evening, but I do not understand AT ALL Huffman's absence. Don't know his reasons, but I think he made a mistake missing tonight.

Kralmajales said...
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Liza said...

x4mr,
I love your account of the Republican forum. Makes me wish I had been there.

Framer said...

Roger,

It wasn't me who wrote the last post on Arizona 8th, it was one of my other contributers. Last night was my wedding anniversery and there is no way Mrs. Framer was going to allow us to spend it at a political forum :)

I believe they were referring to the Saddlebrook forum on Friday where Randy Graf tore Huffman's voting record apart to applause from the audience.

Huffman really isn't a public speaking kind of guy and these forums are a little bit of torture for him, especially since his voting record is way out of synch with the people who attend these events.

I have tried to remain even handed of Huffman and his campaign so far, however, if am really starting to be of the opinion that he and his staff have run possibly one of the worst campaigns in recent history. He has failed to capitalize on just about every advantage he has been given. This thing is not over by a long shot, but time is running out fast.

And finally, I am on Steve's mailing list and I haven't received an early ballot from him as yet. He probably should have hired you for his campaign manager, as your plans seem to be better than what he has going.

x4mr said...

Roger,

Framer is correct about "The Committee" post at his blog. The Huffman/Graf thing was an earlier event. I concur with that post, by the way, and Antoneri is a man to be watched.

In case folks don't know, last night's thing was a pretty big deal. CD 8 was only first half. After that (if I recall correctly), all four republican candidates for governor went to the front for a blast Janet fest.

This group was solid R primary voters. I think the only people in the building not electing R nominees on 9/12 were myself, the D candidates, the two or so Giffords folks that brought literature, and a nice looking woman wearing a Weiss button.

Huffman was where?

Final remark is that this race has identified two up and comers well worth noticing: Latas on the blue side and Antoneri on the red.

Neither have any money and neither will win. This year.

Kralmajales said...
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Framer said...

Roger,

I haven't seen them, but apparently he is releasing an attack ad on Graf right now. At least that what some of the commenters on my site are saying.

I will be interested to see the ad.

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Liza said...

x4mr,
You must have a crystal ball over there because you state definitively that neither Latas nor Antoneri will win. Perhaps you can help me with my portfolio as my chances of becoming a bag lady have increased dramatically in George Bush's America.

phx kid said...

I was at both the Saddlebrooke meeting on August 11 and at last night's candidate forum in Oro Valley.

Steve was at the Saddlebrooke meeting and spoke well but Graf went right after Huffman and spanked him hard. The audience loved it.

Steve must have known his hit piece was coming out today and felt no need to go to a candidate forum like the one last night in Oro Valley. Looks like he is going to let the TV do the talking for him.

It was a good day for Steve to launch his attack ad. The ratings from the Arizona Federation of Taxpayers came out today. Huffman does not look so good. Here is a link to the scores

One problem. Steve went negative early enough for Graf to respond. If Huffman does another hit-piece people will just see him as “Dr. No.”

phx kid said...

Sorry about the bad link.

Let me see if this one works.

Try this link

Liza said...

Art,
Where are you? Write something. This meandering thread has been consumed by Republicans and bears no relationship to your original post.

phx kid said...

liza,

I am sorry. Was I the final breaking point for you?

I will go back to my other blogs.

Liza said...

phx kid,
No, please stay. Literate, analytical Republicans who are not rabid are very scarce. However, I did notice that "summo cum latte" over on R,R@R. I would never make that mistake, of course, because I had two years of Latin.

I just think we're ready for a new subject.

x4mr said...

No crystal ball, Liza, and remember I am willing to make assertions and be wrong.

It's just the math on my radar. We'll know 9/13. The primary is in exactly 4 weeks. I cannot tell between the ladies, but will project their aggregate to top 70% of the primary votes. Jeff will garner most of what is left. Alex will not reach 10%, Francine won't reach 5% and Johnson not even 2%.

Maybe Stacy will release some good polls soon over at AZ Watch.

By the way, if you want to mark these words and whack me silly on 9/13, it's ok. I won't take it personal and will still respect you, which I do.

I used to be married. There was a five year streak in there where I wasn't right once about a thing.

phx kid said...

Liza,

Only two years. I had three. Of course the teacher was a family friend and was nice enough to see that I received a 62% each semester.

I should have been in Spanish since I was from Arizona but they just plain kicked me out of that class.

Art Jacobson said...

Liza...

Look for a new post today (it will probably drive everyone wild. :-)

I've been extremely busy the past two weeks, deep in rehearsals for the opening show of the Rogue Theatre season.

Art

Ben R said...

Giffords is push polling!

Multiple people have recieved calls that attack Patty Weiss and attempt (lamely) to pump up Giffords. Too many people have gotten this call in the past few days for it to be an actual poll.

Callers are saying that Patty's health plpan would raise taxes on the middle class, accusing her of evading income tax and saying that her husband is in the pocket of big pharm. The callers then try to push Giffords "positives."

I remember a certain Democrat saying not too long ago "We don't do that here." I guess Giffords was lying then just like she lied in her ads. And when she was called out for untruths in her ads, her supporters called the "attacks" Rovian. Well what about these personal attacks on Patty and her family? They come straight out of the Karl Rove playbook. The move was used against another popular Arizonan in South Carolina in 2000. Rove and his cronies lied about McCain and trashed his family, paving the way for Bush to win the nomination.

This is the mark of a pathetic desparate campaign who can't win on the up and up. They've resorted to this garbage and I'm angry. Questioning someone's public record to their face and out in the open is fine. But these behind the back lies are unbecoming of someone trying to be my representative.

Furthermore, Giffords volunteers are only sending VBM cards if the recipient promises to vote for Giffords. Again, sounds pretty Rovian.

Darapti said...

Yo, Ben...

The Giffords campaign is crtainly not pathetic,and hardly desparate.(sic)

Aggressive campaigning is nothing new in politics, or hadn't you noticed? Is Weiss sending out VBM cards to Giffords suporters? Yeah, sure.

Let me explain it to you. We are in early voting. That's like one long election day, okay? On election day you do something called "getting out the vote" where you offer help to your supporters to get to the polls.

You don't offer help to your opponent.

If Weiss supporters can't take the heat they shouldn't have followed Patty into the kitchen in the first place.

Kralmajales said...
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'Zona Dem said...

Roger,

Are you seriously defending the practice of push polling? If you have issues with anything Weiss has said, that's perfectly understandable, but at least she did it out in the open. Or "in the light of day" as Gabby would say.

Push polling is a dispicable campaign tactic designed to circumvent federal election law. They want to circulate negative messages -- blatantly false negative messages -- without having to indentify who is paying for the "poll."

Polling firms do not have to disclose who their funders are because it would corrupt the data, so the Giffords campaign is diguising a blatant smear campaign as a poll to circumvent the system.

Honestly, this makes me sick. I have gotten this call myself, and I'm rethinking whether I will support Giffords in the general.

An OPEN, HONEST debate on the issues, even the tough ones, is fine. But hiding behind push polling is dirty politics of the worst kind.

The Giffords campaign should be ashamed.

And I'm shocked that anyone on this blog would support such a practice. I have disagreed with many of you, but I have respected you all along. If you endorse this kind of campaigning... you're no better than the worst of the Republicans.

Also, I guess this puts to rest whether the Giffords campaign thinks they are ahead. I've never heard of a winning campaign doing push polling before. But then again I've never heard of a Democratic campaign doing it either.

I still can't believe this... it's just like Bush/McCain in 2000.

I don't even know what else to say...

Kralmajales said...
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'Zona Dem said...

Roger,

Yes or no. Do you believe that push polling is an acceptable campaign practice?

I hope you would say no, or I've lost all respect for you when it comes to anything political. And it's not in the open when there is no "approved by" which is exactly why they are doing a push poll.

Because they are cowards and don't want to fight their own fights.

Kralmajales said...
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'Zona Dem said...

She took ONE donation from anyone associated with pharma.

The guy is marketing one drug, a drug he thinks would have saved his son's life. His kid committed suicide while attending the UofA, and Patty and her husband helped him start a foundation in his honor.

Out of gratitude, he made a contribution. The guy is not Pfizer, and to even try to put him in the same league is bordering on mean.

Your argument is that man should be banned from donating to Democrats because he's marketing a drug he hopes will ease depression and save people's lives.

This is unbelieveable... Roger, you've finally lost it.

And don't compare this to the Wal-Mart windfall that Gabby supported. Fleecing the taxpayers of $25 million a year and taking $2000 from a mourning father is not the same thing

Kralmajales said...
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Kralmajales said...
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Ben R said...

Roger,
Of course they are not going to admit to doing it, and they aren't going to tell all of their volunteers "hey guys, we're doing a push poll." I believe that it was Giffords b/c the calls attack Patty and pump up Giffords.

I don't think the RNC would spend a lot of money trying to influence the Dem primary. But if it is them, wouldn't that then prove that they would rather face Giffords than Patty?

But it isn't them. It's Giffords. She has no integrity as she has proven time and time again.

Kralmajales said...
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Kralmajales said...
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'Zona Dem said...

Polls don't need "paid for by," Roger. That's the point of doing a push poll. You can spread negatives without having to have your name associated with it.

And Ben is right, they wouldn't tell their volunteers that they were doing a push poll.

He's also right in saying that if it is the GOP, it shows they would much rather face Gabby than Patty.

And you're right, I can't prove it, I didn't record the phone call, but it was about a 20-minute poll and I'm a 4x4 Dem. I'm sure some other folks must have gotten the same thing.

Kralmajales said...
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Rex Scott said...

Zona Dem is right. Push polling is a loathesome practice. No one should be subjected to it.

I am confident after making some inquiries that this is not a Giffords effort. Indeed, why would the campaign think this is even necessary? Other than a discredited story written by a cub reporter who used to be a College Republican, all the good news in the CD8 race is going OUR way. Going negative now would make NO SENSE.

Giffords supporters have also received phone calls from purported pollsters that have trashed our candidate. It is likely that the GOP is field testing negative attacks for the fall campaign aganst the two Dems most likely to be the nominee. Huffman has already used this tactic against Graf in their primary and, for all we know, this could be coming from his camp.

Gabby has been subject to more personal attacks on these blogs than anyone else. George Tuttle's blog (where things are supposed to be "relevant and civil") has been a bastion of Giffords-bashing. He also had one negative post against Weiss after Don Diamond contributed to her campaign.

If you look on the Weiss campaign website, there is a press release and a blog entry attacking Gabby. Weiss has also trashed Gabby on two radio shows, on Daily Kos and in the Tucson Weekly. I guess I can understand the strategic thinking behind these moves when all the support is going to Giffords, but if anyone has "gone negative," it's Patty!

If the Weiss camp can prove that this is coming from us, let them bring forth the evidence.

x4mr said...

Wow,

A cigar and then dinner with daughter and I miss quite a blog fest.

Just one observation--somewhere between four to a dozen bloggers seem hellbent to trash Giffords. I've called them Giffonators in the spirit of humor, but not really thinking it's funny anymore.

Notice that there are no Weissinators or Latassinators, none. Sure perhaps a little jabbing between P and J, but nothing, not even close, to the venom directed at Giffords over these past few months.

I guess that's what it looks like when you are winning.

Just under 4 weeks, and it's a new game.

Ben R said...

I have no doubt that this push poll is happening. To blame it on Huffman is BS. That guy has enough problems with his own primary to be worried about this. To blame it on the RNC is also foolish. Why would they be pushing Giffords? If it was them they would bash Giffords and Weiss, and probably wait at least until after the primary. This isn't polling to gain info. This is widespread negative push polling.

And why would the Giffords campaign tell you? Rex and Kralmajales like to act like insiders. If they are push polling, I can assure you they aren't telling everyone. I can pretty much assure that it is kept to the innnermost circle of the campaign, and if you ask someone in that circle they aren't going to be stupid enough to own up to it.
Don't flatter yourselves Rex and Kralmajales, you don't know all that goes on behind closed doors, and they aren't going to tell you.

cc burro said...

Having read what Rove did to get George Bush elected governor of Texas, what Rove did to beat John McCain in the South Carolina presidential primary, I wouldn't assume that anything was too low for Republican operatives to stoop too.

sirocco said...

AZ Dem said (on RR&R, and restated in a different way in this thread):

"So... it's either Giffords, or it's someone on behalf of Giffords, or it's the Republicans because they know that Weiss is the strongest candidate.

Those are the only possibilities."


However, AZ Dem is wrong. The other likely candidate is the Weiss campaign itself. Campaigns regularly do polls like this trying to find out for themselves what attacks might stick that they need to be prepared for. If, while doing so, their opposition gets blamed for it and they get some good press, well, that's even better ... but it's not the primary purpose.


Not that it amounts to any form of proof, but I haven't seen the Weiss campaign decrying the poll either.

Randall Holdridge said...

Long past time on this thread, but since the whole deal is preserved forever in cyberspace, it's worth saying: "Aren't you ashamed of yourselves?"